I Had Always Just Assumed I’d Spank My Children – One Mom’s Journey to Seeing

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This is, quite possibly, the most eloquently written composition on this subject (specifically the Biblical aspect of the subject) that I have ever read.

This woman has two subsequent related posts, of which I will address in separate posts here.  But start with this.. just read and sit with it for the time it chooses to leave you its essence.

____________________________________

Grace

January 8, 2011 by discipleshipmothering

My Letter to Focus on the Family

Hi,

I am a long time listener and supporter of Focus on the Family. From the time I was a teenager, I listened to and from school and college, collecting much wisdom for the path ahead of me. A strange thing for a teen to do, I guess. But, I truly love the Lord, and wanted His best for my future. I hold a high respect for Dr. James Dobson and his marriage advice. I’ve been very happily married for almost ten years.

However, when I had my first child, Dr.Dobson’s advice nearly broke my heart. I’d always assumed I’d spank, and followed his advice for my spirited 2 year old. I cannot express to you in words how wrong it felt. The spirit of God was convicting me, and this precious son, whom I’d nursed for 21 months, and had continued a very close, in-synch relationship with, even through the addition o a new baby, when he was 28 mos….become afraid and distrustful of me. Not only that, it wasn’t working to improve his behavior. He fit the bill for “strong-willed”, certainly. But, could he be beyond hope, since the very method tailored to his personality wasn’t working?

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With much prayer, my husband and I began to research other discipline methods. I came across gentlechristianmothers.com in my search, and discovered some very eye-opening statements about Biblical discipline.

Out son is now 4 yrs old. We are complimented often, at church, by family and friends, and even by strangers, on how happy and well-behaved our children seem. Life is not perfect, and he’s not a perfect child. But, we are a much more peaceful, loving family since learning to discipline with the Grace of Jesus.

What I see lacking on your website is acknowledgement that these verses in Proverbs may not mean what we think they mean. You can do the research yourself and find that there are many reasons to doubt that these are commands to hit children. More than likely, they are wise principles for being a constant source of authority for our children. The OT has many things to say that are covered under grace. Another good example is the treatment of women caught in adultery. We all know how Jesus chose to react. This should be the ultimate example, among many in the NT, of how to apply grace.

I write this because the advice from Dr. Dobson about strong willed children is at worse, very dangerous advice for new parents. And, at the very least, it is impractical and unecessary. I say dangerous because it’s using God’s Word to convince parents they must hit their children. I believe there are FAR more Biblical principles we can apply to child discipline, besides a few commonly misunderstood proverbs, written by a king who ended his life in such disgrace against God, and was held with such irreverence by his own sons  (Solomon). Let’s instead apply the wisdom of Christ, Himself.  How did He disciple? How did He view children? What principles of love, forgiveness, reproof, and correction can we glean from the NT church?

I don’t expect to change anyone’s mind completely about spanking. It is so ingrained in our culture, most people don’t think twice about NOT doing it, as I once thought. However, I hope my letter will at least open the eyes of Focus on the Family and it’s wide-spread influence, to impact the world with Christ’s love.

My husband and I have experienced a total life change, and it has not been easy in the face of criticism. But, thus far, it has been one of the best decisions of our young life. It is my prayer that one day, Dr. Dobson will realize his mistake and change his heart on this subject.

Many Prayers,
(My Real Name)

I’ll keep you posted if I receive a reply.

 

Spanking is Not God’s Will

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This means not allowing your child to go down the wrong road that could lead to a premature death.  This has absolutely nothing to do with actual crying as Dobson and many other Christian advocates of spanking believe!  Children need limits.  We wouldn’t let a toddler run out in the street to be run over by a car.  But instead of spanking the toddler, we should firmly tell the toddler that the street is dangerous, and then show the toddler the safe way to cross the street holding onto Mommy or Daddy hands.  Does hitting a toddler really teach him or her why the street is dangerous and how to be safe?  No!  It teaches them that danger makes Mommy and Daddy hurt me.   That Jesus wants me to be hurt when I’m in danger.  Remember, young children cannot make abstract connections like adults can.

 

Please take a moment to read the rest of the article found here, as well as the three that precede it in the series.

No Defense, Just Reflection

A beautiful reflection of a heart wounded…  Please take a moment to read and reflect on your own life.  I also want to encourage any of you who feel so compelled to reach out and share yourself with this writer.

S O U R C E

Processing Spanking

Spanking.  A huge hot button topic. I know.  And now, with post #1, being somewhat normal, and post #2, being an emotional cry, I figured it was okay to break up the hot button topics in post #3.Knowing that my parents loved me, and would do anything for me, and yet still processing how spanking affected me is a very painful process.  I feel like I am the problem. I feel like the feelings and effects spanking had on me are unique to only me, and that if I were just “better” in some way, I would not have the severe emotional trauma from such a “normal” childhood event.  To put this post in perspective, let me just spend a few moments to brag on my wonderful parents.  My dad is a wonderful Godly man.  He isn’t afraid to take the uncomfortable road.  He is more generous that most people I know.  He is deeply committed to taking care of the needy, and reaching people with the gospel of Christ.  I am, and always have been, a daddy’s girl. <3 I remember going on daddy daughter dates.. I remember being a able to cry in his arms. I remember how excited I would be when he would get home.  My daddy was always the #1 man in my life, until I met Pine.. And now, he still is very important to me.  I want his approval, and I have strode to get it my whole life.  I feel safer, and more secure if he tells me I am doing well.

My mom is a very strong woman, with a heartbreaking past.  No one should be able to be as healthy as her considering what she has gone through.  My mom probably would understand the deep soul searching I am doing now, if it didn’t hit her personally, because I have seen her do the same things.  Evaluate the way she was raised.. Try to keep the good, and get rid of the abusive, unhealthy patterns she was raised with.  My mom was committed to our characters no matter the cost.  And she has cried many tears, because she felt as if she never lived up to it.  I can totally understand that feeling now as I look at my own little boy, and think of all the mistakes I have made in such a short time.

Spanking.  To this day, we (my parents and I) do not agree on the topic of spanking.  I can point you to a hundred different studies that show why spanking is unhealthy.. I can show you a hundred different stories like mine to show how it affects people. Not all people, but enough to make me think twice.  But that’s not the purpose of this blog. For once, I am not going to defend what I have come so strongly to believe.  Instead, I am just going to write out my feelings.  My vulnerabilities, my anxieties, my memories.  This is part of a process towards healing..

I remember being spanked often as a child.  Sometimes several times a day.  I remember the panic that would well inside of me as I was forced to bend over.  I remember instinctively, uncontrollably rolling off the side of the bed to avoid the spoon, or belt, or hanger.  I remember trying so hard to stay still as they hit me.. Because I knew that if I did move, I would get more. I remember crying out in fright, frustration and anger “I am not trying to move! I can’t help it!”  And I remember getting the extra lashes anyways.  My parents did spank in anger, but some of the worst spankings I got were done “correctly” My parents were not visibly angry.  They explained in quiet tones why I deserved what was coming.  They explained that it would all stop as soon as I repented.  The amount of shame…  A sick, dark cloud of shame would hang over my soul.  I am not talking about my conscience here.  I think that the word shame means something very different than guilt.  Guilt is something you feel because you committed a wrong action. Shame is something you feel, because you are worth less.. Your very value is defined by an action, or how someone perceives you.  I would be spanked, a minimum of 10 times.  That seemed to be the starting point to the best of my memory.  When I got better at staying still, it would only be 10.  Otherwise it would be until I had received 10 in a row without moving away from the blows. Every time I flinched to hard and moved to the side, the count would restart.  After the spanking was over, my parents would hold me.  I remember being terrified, humiliated, and scared to do anything that would displease them in the least, lest the nightmare repeat itself.  I would sit in their laps and pretend I was sorry.  I learned that tears of “repentance” really made them happy.  I became a fake repenter.  I felt bad about what I had done, don’t get me wrong.  I even wished I had not done it. But not because it was wrong.. But because with the punishment came the terror of shame.  The sick feeling of worthlessness, and a total and complete failure as a person.

This dynamic I think, is why I am having such a hard time understanding the grace of God.  God does not love me because I “perform”.  And God’s love does not change when my actions or attitudes are not pleasing to him.  God’s love is constant.  I learned the opposite.. That acceptance and otherwise love is conditional on performance.  And I also learned that if the person you were trying to please thought you were doing right, then you could earn your acceptance, and still behave the way you liked.

There is more than that though.  A darker side of spanking.  One I have voiced very rarely, and one that is deeply humiliating.  And that is the sexual side of spanking. Even typing this out makes me shake a little bit, and the nerve endings in my bottom twitch uncomfortably. Its something people don’t talk about.  But I am not alone in the way it felt.  Before I had any idea what sex was, or how different parts of our bodies reacted in different ways, I always felt… encroached upon whenever someone even brushed up against my butt. Spanking was a nightmare because of it.  I felt dirty, and deeply humiliated by the act of bending over, and willingly allowing someone else to invade that which was so deeply private to me.  By humiliated, I don’t just mean embraced.. I mean a feeling so strong and dark it would make me physically ill.  I don’t remember any of my siblings struggling so much with staying in the one position while the spanking was administered.  But I literally could.not. stay still without trying to move away.  It took years of training before I could force myself to, and even then my entire body would flinch.  I didn’t realize until after my husband tried to show me sexual attention with my butt just how unsafe I feel. I have a hard time when he shows me intended and healthy sexual attention, because every time he touches me, it throws me down across a bed, and my whole body flinches to get away.  The invasion of the basic boundary of my body was devastating.

My parents did not sexually abuse me.  There was not one spanking that was intended in any ill manner. I know this with 100% certainty.  I also know they have no idea how it felt.  And I have no intention of telling them.  It would cause to much heartache.  If they even believed me.  Processing these feelings has been very hard.  Actually confronting them, instead of shoving them so far under the surface has been deeply painful.  But even now, I know my parents loved me.  They sacrificed, money, convenience, and so much more for us kids.  They did many things right. They taught us the value of hard work and honesty. They taught us that wrong actions often have unpleasant consequences.  And they never once fathomed a simple routine “godly” spanking could cause so much harm.

That thought scares the bejabbers out of me.  Aspen!  My son.. The one I would die for much in the same way my parents loved me.  How is he going to understand and feel the things I do only for his benefit?  Am I going to so deeply invade his personal boundaries, to where the simple thought of it makes him quake and shiver with fear, hopelessness, worthlessness?

Not all children have such a harsh reaction to spanking.  But if you presented everything in this post to my parents, I am sure they would say with certainty it never affected their children this way.

I have so much fear of hurting Aspen unintentionally. But yesterday I realized something.  God is forcing me to deal with the hurt and pain I suffered.  He is working healing in my heart. I have forgiven my parents, and love them dearly.  Really, what God is doing in me now, is a fulfilment of his promise to my parents.  He is being faithful to them to fix the mistakes that they made.  I can only trust that he will do the same for Aspen and Sappling, and any of my other kids.  There is no such thing as a parent that will not cause their children emotional distress. That I am sure of.  I am equally convinced that God has the power to heal the wounds I make in my children, that I have no idea of.  He is faithful!  And that is so encouraging to me.

I don’t think my parents would understand that I am not angry with them if I shared this with them.  I don’t think they would understand that my facing and processing this is a sign of His deep and everlasting love and faithfulness not only to me, but to them.  I have no desire to hurt them, so I probably will never share this with them. There really is no purpose.

I praise God for the changes he is making in me… And tonight, for the first time, I thanked him for healing the wounds I will inflict on my own children.


A few related posts…

A Letter
Why Spank? Well, It Works. Embarrassment is a Powerful Tool
Why Timeouts Are Even Worse Than Spanking
Beyond Spanking, Beyond Training: A Look At Our Littlest Minds
Humiliation – Far Reaching Effects on Children, Adults, Society
Toddler Spanking


Becoming as Wise as Your Baby

At babywisemom.com (a site with content I detest),
it was said:

“Despite the flaws of the book, I highly recommend it, especially if you are sleep training. It will give you the courage to continue forward.”
S O U R C E


One might ask, why is courage needed, if it is a positive and beneficial method of working with our littlest humans.  Furthermore, why would pediatricians be warning against this process, along with “On Becoming Babywise”, if it were so effective and beneficial?

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My Little One’s Portrait

To all the parents out there, veteran and new, courage to continue forward in a process that isolates a child and forces the mind to develop self coping mechanisms in a timeline that is premature, and in the only environment that is supposed to be completely safe (home, mama, papa), is not courage,
it is stupid and cruel.

The courage to never abandon, never neglect, never delay,
and never isolate is what your child actually needs from you.

Courage to be conveniently not stuck with dealing with an infant or baby behaving as such is not courage, it is selfishness.

The Pearls’, Ezzo’s, Weissbluth’s, Lessin’s, Lindvall, and countless others think they’ve found themselves a kingdom of heaven in their methods of not having to deal with the inconveniences of childhood.  They propagate their selfishness and pride rampantly, and hide it under the guise of God and Godly Ways. They teach behaviorism, religiosity, arrogance, subjugation, and shame. What good they impart is the only way they continue their “ministries”, because were the legitimate truth and goodness stripped (it is, but done so in a manner that is deceptive and very covert), no one would pay them an ounce of attention. They hook people with their “good”, reel in with their “Godly this and that”, and then sink every single one of their followers through coercion, guilt, and fear (fear of not raising a good child, fear of disappointing the community, fear of falling short of a God that suddenly measures and gives only warranted approval, according to their interpretation and preachings).


If you are trying to follow these methods, yet find yourself at all struggling or questioning, please pause for a moment. Review your instinct, and shut out all the voices. Forget the methods, the science, the motives.. Just stop and listen to what is there to be heard. Look into your little one’s eyes, listen to their breath, search their thoughts, see their body as it communicates so very much… Observe and reflect, and find your compassion. They deserve nothing less than your all, because, they exist.

 

Children are not machines to be operated, drones to be cut out of a mold, or soldiers to be beaten into unquestioning submission. Children are precious, most valuable, worthy of honor and respect. Love them.

Lead them by example and mentorship. Do not damage, do not diminish.

Children, when revered for their very existence respond in turn. They will see your honesty, see your imperfections, see your wisdom and maturity, and feel your love without condition. They will taste your selflessness, your sacrifice, your pride in them.  They will grow strong, capable, stable.  They are born with the opportunity and the right to be whole. Do not break them.


Quoted from below, “It was not like having a baby in the family at all, but rather just like having another child in the family. What a blessing.”

This statement sickens me. Someone, please respond with a legitimate, unselfish explanation of what the trouble with having a baby in the family is exactly.  Isn’t becoming pregnant and giving birth to a baby likely going to result in the family adding a baby to its midst?

“Our first child was a demand fed baby and it was a nightmare. He was more demanding for a long time as a child.”

Oh my little ones… to think you are valued high enough that you are fed when your body triggers your mind to alert your caregiver to feed…

Dear mother,
Dear father,

The next time your stomach indicates hunger, ignore it.  Simply learn to control your hunger pangs will you! How inconvenient. (Unless, of course, they occur on schedule, my schedule that is.)  If by chance you have decided to modify your needs to suit mine, I will feed you what I determine is appropriate.  If you are not satisfied, consider this a chance to build your character – self control after all is a highly valued asset.

I dare you to implement upon yourself, under the control of someone you cannot manipulate, your own  control techniques that you force upon your children.




The paragraph below is from –
Gary Ezzo, Anne Marie Ezzo, Babywise and Growing Kid’s God’s Way

From Dr. Heldzinger: We started implementing the principles in Baby Wise with our 4th baby (unfortunately we did not learn them before.) What a difference it made to our family. Our first child was a demand fed baby and it was a nightmare. He was more demanding for a long time as a child. With the third we implemented parent-controlled feeding out of our own and with the 4th we used the Ezzo method. It was not like having a baby in the family at all, but rather just like having another child in the family. What a blessing.We subsequently implemented the principles in Growing Kids God’s Way and Reflections of Moral Innocence in our family. My 3 teenagers and 1 child are loved by others and are committed Christians. In fact they have their own ministry, sharing the Word of God. I have seen over 150,000 patients as a family physician and have used these principles to counsel parents with great success (by God’s grace). These are common sense principles, not rocket science. I believe our society has lost their common sense. These principles work! These parent-contolled feeding principles improves people’s lifestyles and makes having a baby in the family an enjoyable experience. My wife breastfed our youngest until he was 3 years old, and he never tugged and begged to be breastfed. He always knew we would feed him when the time was right. I have seen a patient with 4 year old out of control twin boys, for example, and counsel all my patients to follow the methods of calm discipline with firm boundaries and set consequences. When the parents implement these principles, they have great success. I highly recommend the Ezzo’s ministry and all their series to people who want to raise morally responsible, enjoyable youth. Gary and Anne Marie Ezzo changed our marriage (from being child-centered to spouse-centered). We likely could have been divorced if we did not learn what we learned.Growing Kids God’s Way changed our lives. Only in Eternity will the results of their ministry truly be known. Thank you so much Pastor Gary and Anne Marie. My wife and I appreciate your ministry so much.

The sorrow I feel is palpable.

Angie

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There is more on this subject worth review – found here

Ostracism in Action

What follows is an exercise in ostracism, for the purpose of contemplation on the part of anyone who chooses to read on.  My only request is that you read the entire post before you form your conclusion.

These are a series of comments/responses from the post found here.

I wrote the original post it in such a way to cause an impassioned response specifically from people who don’t understand or believe there is harm in using “timeouts” as punishment, or even contemplative time.  (Contemplative time is not harmful, and it does not look like a timeout.)  Seems as though my approach has been rather successful so far, based upon all the commentary today.  I’m glad you guys are talking!
It is a given that I believe anyone who strikes their child deserves a giant do the same thing to them, without a moment’s hesitation.  I believe the same is true for someone who uses ostracism to try to get a point across to their kid.  They deserve a unified ignore session by those they wish to be included by.

The exercise shown in this exchange goes to demonstrate the topic in question rather effectively. Please know that my harsh tone is not to ridicule or offend the woman to whom I am speaking, but to illustrate a point, by allowing someone else to do it for me.

– To the woman in the exchange, I regret that you have been negatively effected through this.  I hope we can, in the future, have intelligent and thoughtful, compassion conversation. However, if you choose otherwise, I will respect your decision.

_____________________________________________________________________

2010/09/15 at 7:57 pm – In reply to original post (link is shown above)

I can see a lot of your points…however, I don’t feel timeout is that bad. We use it with our 2 1/2 year old daughter only for more severe things…hitting, biting. It is very rare she is in time out. However, we don’t yell or scream we simply say, “Bummer, no ______ , time out) Then right after Time out we say, “Time out is over, I love you!” and we move on. She hasn’t seemed effected by it negatively at all and like I said, it is rare that she is in time out. I don’t see it as ignoring her…I see it has her taking a couple of minutes to think about her choices and why they were poor ones.

That’s a bummer that you disagree and don’t choose to review science, or the entire practice, as your daughter experiences it. Tell you what, I suggest you take a few moments, think about things a bit, and when I think you have had enough time to really understand within yourself something that you seem to not at the moment, I’ll continue. Until then, I won’t be responding, nor will I allow anyone else to.

Review science???? Why spanking is better than time out???? First, you need to respect other peoples’ views and discipline as long as they are creating well rounded kids, who respect everyone, are friendly, treat everyone equally, and are raised with great values. If I see parents who do this…I don’t question their discipline procedures. For kids who are disrespectful, mean, etc. I would question that. You can’t judge….my daughter is one of the happiest kids I know and I’m not the only one who thinks that….So her minimal time outs have not had a negative effect on her! Keep an open mind! I would never spank her…even though I was spanked…there are other, better ways to discipline!


2010/09/15 at 8:44 pm | In reply to Lauren Raymond.

That took you 14 minutes. You are not happy with me, are you? I should now say, I suppose, I have decided (by the fact that I approved your response) that you have had enough time to think about what I have imposed upon you to think about. And, I’ll add that I hope you have a better idea now of what you think, and how you’ll act next time. I respect you! And I see nothing wrong with making you take a couple of minutes to think about your choices and why, in my opinion, they are poor ones.

Pissed, aren’t you.

I dismissed you. I singled you out, disapproved, and decided that your thoughts, comments, and existence was such that I could assign and judge your value.

You still haven’t reviewed the science behind the brain’s response to time outs. But that’s ok, because, unlike your daughter, I cannot force you to do anything. I can isolate and reject you, and I can tell you what you do is wrong, but you’re an adult so, I have no power over you. Or do I? Again, you’re pissed at me.


2010/09/15 at 9:01 pm | In reply to Angie.

Yeah, I was pissed b/c you are judging me based on not knowing me and what my situation is and how I raise and discipline my daughter. I’m proud of my husband and I, we are on the same page with raising and disciplining our daughter and we are bringing up a very well-rounded, respectful, happy child! Now do you have power over me??? No. Am I pissed again? No… I realize what you are doing. I respect you and your thoughts and like hearing other people’s thoughts, ideas, research etc, even if I don’t agree with all of it!

_________


To conclude this post, with respect being shown to this
woman’s value and autonomy,
I will address a couple of her remarks,
in the voice of direct response.

__________________________________________________
“Review science???? Why spanking is better than time out????”
I wonder if you have not read the post in its entirety, or perhaps have not understood the content.
“First, you need to respect other peoples’ views and discipline as long as they are creating well rounded kids, who respect everyone, are friendly, treat everyone equally, and are raised with great values. If I see parents who do this…I don’t question their discipline procedures.”
In response, I respectfully will say that the only thing I have to do is accept that every legal resident of my country has the right to hold, promote, and change their views.  I do not have to tolerate, condone, or allow abuse.  Our society thinks mutilating a boy’s genitals is just fine.  A really good amount of our society thinks striking a child is just fine.  You don’t.  Neither do I.  But you think isolating and rejecting a child, in the name of a timeout (because it works and doesn’t seem to directly cause any damage) is also fine, as does the majority if our society.  I do not.  Our society as a whole follows itself around and around, afraid to detour or step out of line.  Why is this?  Refer to the definition of ostracism, and look at it from a reverse point of view.
There are a few of us out there that step out of the collectively determined appropriate line, almost continually.  Sometimes it’s intentional, sometimes it’s not even something we’re aware we’ve done.  We’re not damaging others by doing so, except those that are in need of our following and blind acceptance and approval.  We damage their egos. They are the people who most often retaliate with nonsense and declaration of war.
But, contrary to your point of view of me, I do respect the fact that everyone has his/her own view.  And I hold that very quality with high regards.  In fact, I appreciate those that will speak openly about their views the most. However, my criteria in judging whether a parent is succeeding is different than yours.  And you feel as though I have attacked you simply because of how I chose to not just agree with your decision to voice your opinion.  Admittedly, I took it a few steps further and allowed the natural course of conflict to develop in effort to demonstrate the very interplay to which I am most assertively speaking against when it comes to how it is used with children.
“…as long as they are creating well rounded kids, who respect everyone, are friendly, treat everyone equally, and are raised with great values. If I see parents who do this…I don’t question their discipline procedures.”
My criteria is not based on the generally accepted methods our society uses to determine whether a human is a good person.  Nor, do I use the criteria that if the child doesn’t offend me by their behavior, and appears to be generally respectful and properly functioning, given what I happen to get to observe in a public or even semi-private setting, that the parent is not abusing the child.  My criteria is that the child is raised in an environment that is not harming, not destructive, and does not produce a child who is<em> unwhole </em>or damaged in even the slightest way.  I do not judge a parent’s effectiveness or assign a degree of “good” based upon the child. I judge the parent based upon the actions and decisions of the parent.

Given: Society will kill my ideal – a wholly, undamaged child who grows to a complete and unharmed adult.  But in my home, my child will never experience the insecurity, uncertainty, or lack of my utmost respect for their existence.
Even when I am angry, I will never isolate or reject my child so she can “think about what she’s done wrong”.  I will work with her to understand her motives, and work with her (that means use words and conversation, body language and compassion) so that she understands my responses.  If, however, she goes off on her own, to spend time alone by her own choice,  I will not prevent it – which goes back to respecting her autonomy and value.
“First, you need to respect other peoples’ views and discipline as long as they are creating well rounded kids, who respect everyone, are friendly, treat everyone equally, and are raised with great values. If I see parents who do this…  I don’t question their discipline procedures. For kids who are disrespectful, mean, etc. I would question that.”
Again, I don’t judge anything based upon the child. I don’t impose myself or my beliefs either. However, if asked, I will respond with the information and education I have. And if given a chance to demonstrate, I welcome people watch that education in action with my own child.
“You can’t judge….my daughter is one of the happiest kids I know and I’m not the only one who thinks that….”
Actually, I can judge; I have a fairly well developed sense of discernment. What I think you want to tell me here is that you are angry and offended and feel as though I have passed judgment upon you.  In other words, by my actions, you feel like I have asserted that I am somehow superior to you.  I would be just as pissed if someone tried to do that to me.  But what might not be so apparent is that instead of asserting a superiority, I just got in your face, as an equally intelligent and capable person.
Instead of being wishywashy, going with the accepted norm,  and allowing you to speak and not responding in turn,  I responded in a manner that is very similar to what our society forces upon its children routinely, in the name of good parenting and good child rearing.  Our society even goes so far to promote this method as the most humane, most considerate, and most concerned with the welfare of the child.
If you think about it, that exact same mantra was propagated across the planet, by well meaning, upright peoples with excellent values, only the context was to spank, to segregate, and to subjugate the female gender – just in the last few generations.  The masses bought the blah then, and they buy it now.  But science quietly presses on, discovering and sharing with those who wish to educate and inform themselves.   – Again I refer to Mr. Roddenberry… may he rest in peace.  😉

“Yeah, I was pissed b/c you are judging me based on not knowing me and what my situation is and how I raise and discipline my daughter. I’m proud of my husband and I, we are on the same page with raising and disciplining our daughter and we are bringing up a very well-rounded, respectful, happy child! Now do you have power over me??? No. Am I pissed again? No… I realize what you are doing. I respect you and your thoughts and like hearing other people’s thoughts, ideas, research etc, even if I don’t agree with all of it!”

I am not actually judging you.  I have questioned you.

I have spoken against something you feel is just fine and you have taken it personally.  This is a reasonable response.  But I wonder if you might be interested in substantiating your chosen belief and actions, as not being harmful, in response to my assertion that it is, in fact harmful and damaging.

I am happy that you are satisfied with your choices, that your husband and you concur (which makes it a lot easier, definitely), and that you believe your daughter is being properly cared for.  However, I still do not approve of, nor condone the use of ostracism or any form of manipulation or abuse.  That’s the funny thing about abuse… we all know it causes damage, but we use it in so many different ways that often it is hard to pinpoint or even recognize, until much, much later.

No, I do not know you or your daughter, but I don’t need to either.  What I do know is that you use this method, you think it’s just fine, you are willing to defend it in theory (hopefully you’ll substantiate, as mentioned), and that you don’t like it when I turn the method around and you are the target.

Your blog describes an episode of your daughter hitting you.  That same post has your description of your assigned consequence, which was one that she was given a choice to allow to occur.  She continued hitting you, thereby choosing to test whether you would follow through (the consequence was your refusal to read her a story before bed, as is the routine).  Then, after enforcing your threat, you left her alone to cry. Your post indicates her father intervened by showing her security, love, and affection.  She accepted his comforting, accepted the consequence of her action, and everyone got some sleep.
S O U R C E

  • My question is, why you allowed her to cry alone, after executing her consequence.
  • My other question concerns why she was hitting you in the first place.

_____________________________________________________________

If there is anything to understand about me, it is that I do not function on the approval of a collective.  I also don’t take anything for fact just because multiple people will “agree” it must be fact.  Proof is one thing, opinion is quite another.
That said, I choose my beliefs, actions, and values based upon fact, knowledge, and experience.
I invite your solid responses.  And if any of you are interested in discovering what can be an option for raising a child without damaging them, by any form of abuse, I encourage you to begin to follow the threads related to the alternative ideas I will start presenting, as I compose them with some resemblance of logic and coherence.

My best to all of you.

A Letter – Mr. Pearl, Don’t Contaminate Kids Needing a Forever Family WITH YOU

Initially, as with so many of his verbal poop sessions, Mr. Pearl says something semi-useful.
“Never adopt children even close to the age of your own”.

There is a good amount of information and experience that discusses the intelligence of not fostering children near the age of your existing minor family members. Why is this? Simple logic. One must intelligently assess what effects there will be on the home’s existing children by including other children. The incoming children each have their life story, and all that comes with it.  If you think the incoming children will not affect the existing family, as well as individual dynamics in the home, you are incorrect.

Notice how I have stopped explaining this thought. The omission is intentional.  I hope it will cause you to think.

If you are only now contemplating evil, danger, negative, possibly harmful concerns… fostering & adoption is not a good option for you.

S O U R C E

“Never adopt children even close to the age of your own. You should be past child bearing age, and your children should be at least 10-15 years older than the adopted kids. I don’t think there is any such thing as an orphanage raised child who has not been a participant in sexual perversion. If you are older and your kids are grown, it is a wonderful, full time ministry to adopt foreign kids. You will experience heartache, possibly failure, but you may just save a soul from sure destruction. But if there is failure, at least your kids will not go down with them.”
“Foster parenting is for people whose children are grown or for families with older children who take in the very young.”   Comments written by Michael Pearl of No Greater Joy Ministries.

I am nauseated by these words.  Sick.  I had a prospective adoptive family contact me in fear after they read this article.  I preached my opinion, based upon God’s Word and my personal experience, to this sweet mom.  Then I went to the site that ignited her fears, and I felt sad, sick, and frustrated beyond words.

I left a comment on Mr. Pearl’s sight in response to his advice for families.  Below are my thoughts to Mr. Pearl and the other parents who have left comments on Mr. Pearl’s article, the very parents who may be timid toward adoption due to fears that man has set in their hearts.  I don’t know if Mr. Pearl will post my comments on his site, but I do not want any of you to read his words of caution and be turned away from the very heart of God with His command to care for orphans and widows in their distress.  Here’s a copied/pasted version of the comment I left for Mr. Pearl and his readers:

I am so sad to see such a negative viewpoint toward adoption and fostering with so many parameters being set up by man with regards to orphan care and fostering. It is God’s command to care for orphans and widows in their distress. This, according to Scripture, is pure and undefiled religion. Nowhere in the Bible does it set parameters on WHO should care for orphans (older couples past child-bearing years, etc.), nor does it set parameters on the value of the life of an orphan (regardless of the child’s history or being raised in an orphanage). All children are precious in His sight, regardless of what country they live in or whether they were orphaned or have lived in an orphanage or have suffered abuse. They are valued by God and He asks us to care for them. No child ever asks to be hurt/molested (including our bio kids), and all children (and adults) are valued and redeemable. His blood is our redemption. There is no sin too great for redemption, but if we all turn our backs on the orphans who God calls us to care for, they may never know redemption.

There’s more.  Click the source link at the top and go read.. and cross reference with his article here.

What this comes down to is whether you, as an individual, can function as one.  Whether you, individually, can think for yourself, choose your path and values, and in your own mind make the distinction between what is going to improve life for yourself and others, and what will improve the life of others you interact with.

Oh how I wish Mr. Roddenberry had lived longer.

I will work on my thoughts.

Ok, This Just Isn’t Right

Go -> SEE THIS (click)

Note #7 (and #8)

The title and description alone grab my attention and wake up the sexual side in my head.

I’m fascinated in a morbid sort of way about the details of just exactly how to “set up the scene” for a planned spanking.  Now, you tell me how this could possibly be something beneficial to a child.  Again, as stated before, I have never used spanking as an adult for sexual enjoyment, have never spanked my child, won’t ever spank my child, was spanked once with my pants down as a three year old, and have a healthy sex life (for the most part – I have a two year old folks, what can I say).

So, what is it, do you suppose, that is triggered in my head when I see the simplest of words arranged in the following ways?

Spanking positions
This chapter discusses the most common spanking positions.
Spanking techniques
This chapter gives additional “how to” recommendations.

Now, take a look at these letters: The first is a father, a widower who has two daughters, aged 16 and 12.  This is horrendous and my heart breaks for these girls.  Girls, if you ever happen to stumble upon this post, you are most welcome to contact me for support; I will network you with a plethora of people who will stand beside and behind you and give you a way to end the madness he’s forcing.

I am a 38 year-old widower with two daughters: 16 and 12. My younger daughter recently landed on your site and showed it to me. Thank you for providing such a well thought-out presentation. I find that I agree with most of what you say. But I have a couple of exceptions.

First, I don’t agree with your “same sex” spanking concepts. Yes, I recognize the danger: a father spanking his daughter might cause some sexual response. But a frank discussion about the difference between having feelings and acting on those feelings should deal with that issue. And these days, there’s so much homosexuality on the TV and elsewhere that I’m not sure “same sex” spankings wouldn’t face the same danger anyway.

My wife died 4 years ago. Even before that, whenever the girls needed a spanking I was the one who spanked them. The Bible holds fathers responsible for spanking their children (See Ephesians 6:4 for example). Abdicating that responsibility is not an option. As long as the father is in the home, it’s his job to do whatever spanking is needed.

Second, I see a problem with your definitions of cooperative and uncooperative children. My girls kind of fit your definition of cooperative children: they know that I love them and they agree that they need to be spanked when they misbehave. And they don’t generally “resist” being spanked for a very good reason: I use the “bare hand on bare bottom” method, but I have a little switch that I reserve for really serious misbehavior.

Once, when my older daughter was 15, she started trying to hit me while I was taking her up to the master bedroom for a spanking. I simply asked her, “Do I need to get The Switch?” Her reaction was a frantic “Nooooooo!” and there was no more problem with resistance.

AHHHHHRGHGHGHGHGHGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!  That 15 year old girl is nothing short of a young woman and what this father is doing is terribly, terribly wrong.  God, there goes my stomach (and God’s too) again.  AND IN THE NAME OF GOD!!!

WRONG

WRONG

WRONG

Twisted, stupid, DAMAGING, wrong!

If either of these two girls decided to tell their school counselor (given that it is a public school that doesn’t also have its head up its ass) that their father spanks them, especially bare, the spankings would cease.  The father would come under investigation and the girls would be given ongoing support and counseling.  I would throw the father into a pit with a bunch of gay men and let them spank him until he couldn’t manage himself anymore.

How pathetic.


S O U R C E
If I were growing up today, Mother could post on parenting web forums about how “effective” spankings are as discipline for her daughters. She could brush aside concerns about emotional harm saying “an hour after I spank her, Carol is happily playing or doing her chores.” She could talk about my good grades in school. She could talk about how polite I am and respectful to my elders, and how she gets compliments from other adults about what a good girl I am in public. And if anyone tried to warn her that she might give her child a fetish, she could laugh and say, “Carol would never turn out like that. She hates to be spanked!” And nothing she said would be a lie.

Now I am retired, unmarried, childless, on medication for depression. At a tender age I used my budding sexuality to cope with something I didn’t know how else to cope with. And it has left its mark on me forever. I’ve been paying the price all my life and I will never stop paying. I am unmarried because the circuits in my brain that should have been used for romance were vandalized by spankings instead. I am childless because I never married. So there is a direct link between my spankings, how I coped with them, and my being sexually abnormal, and hence never marrying and having any children of my own.

Not all of the harm is sexual in nature. An “it made me what I am today” pattern emerges whenever someone unexpectedly confronts me in an angry way about something I did. I have a bad habit of saying the first rationalization that pops into my mind, sometimes even lying. It just blurts itself out of me. And I don’t know how to change. It goes back so far. It is a habit I learned as a preschooler that sometimes saved me from a bottom warming. It usually didn’t, but something that works only occasionally is better than nothing at all.

Another lifelong bad effect of my spankings is that when someone orders me to do something in a stern authoritarian voice, I usually just cave in and do it even if I don’t feel right about what I am doing. It just happens, seemingly by itself. And it all goes back to my earliest years. Growing up in my “traditional values” family, children did as they were told and didn’t talk back. If you did, Mommy would turn you across her knee, pull down your panties and “teach you a lesson” right then and there. I sure learned my lessons! The trouble is, how do you unlearn that lesson as a grownup out in the world who has to stand up for herself? I just hate myself now whenever I realize that once again I let myself be someone’s doormat.

Here are some interesting reads – they are written for the purpose of satisfying the erotic desires of adults, and are on the topic of spanking.  Now, call me crazy, but the letters found on the Chastise With Love site, the descriptions for technique and position, and the fictional accounts found below seem to have an eerie similarity.

http://www.smilingwithteeth.com/janitorium/storiesJS/mommyithurts.html

http://www.textfiles.com/sex/EROTICA/B/boy.txt

Were you spanked as a child? How did you feel about it then and how about now?

See what it does to you.

You Get Obedience, What Does Your Kid Get?

Every Smack is a Humiliation – A Manifesto

by Alice Miller

Many researchers have already proved that corporal punishment on children may indeed produce obedience in the short term but will have serious negative consequences on their character and behavior. Only if there was at least one single person who loved and understood the child, the disastrous development toward later crimes and illnesses could be prevented. During their whole childhood, dictators like Hitler, Stalin or Mao never came across such a helping witness. They learned very early to glorify cruelty and hypocrisy and to justify them while committing crimes on millions of people. Millions of others, because also exposed to physical maltreatment in childhood, helped them to do so without the slightest remorse.

Children should not be the scapegoats of adults’ painful experiences. The claim that mild punishments (slaps or smacks) have no detrimental effects is still widespread because we got this message very early from our parents who had taken it over from their own parents. This conviction helped the child to minimize his suffering and to endure it. Unfortunately, the main damage it causes is precisely our numbness as well as the lack of sensitivity for our children’s pain. The result of the broad dissemination of this damage is that each successive generation is subjected to the tragic effects of seemingly harmless “correction”. Many parents still think: What didn’t hurt me can’t hurt my child. They don’t realize that their conclusion is wrong because they never challenged their assumption.

When in Sweden legislation laws prohibiting corporal punishment were launched in 1978, 70% of the citizens asked for their opinion were against it. In 1997, the figure had dropped to 10%. These statistics show that the mentality of the Swedish population has radically changed in the course of a mere 20 years. A destructive tradition of millennia has been done away with thanks to this legislation.

It is imperative to launch legislation prohibiting corporal punishment all over the world. It does not set out to incriminate anyone but is designed to have a protective and informative function for parents. Sanctions could simply take the form of the obligation for parents to internalize information on the consequences of corporal punishment available today. Information on the “well-meant smack” should therefore be broadcasted to all, since unconscious education to violence takes its roots very early and inflicts disastrous imprints. The vital interests of society as a whole are at stake.


(German translation)
(French translation)

See also:
“Punishment Does Not Work”


Copyright © Alice Miller, 1998